March 28, 2024

iERA Statement in Light of the Woolwich Attack

Whenever there is some heinous terrorist attack perpetrated by Islamists, non-Muslims ask, “Where are the cries of condemnation from all those moderate Muslims that are supposedly out there?”. Well, today I received this notice in my email.
The Islamic Education and Research Academy (iERA) would like to issue a statement in the wake of the gruesome attack that took place on the streets of Woolwich yesterday, Wednesday 22nd May 2013.
Islam does not condone nor encourage acts of criminality; this is abundantly clear in its teachings. iERA as an organisation will continue in its commitment to motivate and empower Muslims to articulate a positive and compassionate case for Islam through positive civic engagement and dialogue.
iERA strongly believes that it is through fostering better understanding of our fellow citizens that will help in uniting our society in good and prevent further acts of violence on our streets.
Islamic teachings provide a clear moral compass for individuals and communities to organise their lives in a harmonious and peaceful way.
Therefore, we as iERA espouse these teachings and urge the Muslim community in Britain to continue to present Islam and to be compassionate and engaged citizens who benefit all communities.
Well isn’t that nice.

However I must remind anyone reading this that the iERA is headed by one Hamza Tzortzis who PZ and I met when he crashed the World Atheist Convention in Dublin Ireland. Hamza tried to convince PZ to get into an iERA car where they intended to take him to an undisclosed location for a private discussion. Sensing the insanity of that invitation, I altered the challenge to invite Hamza onto the Magic Sandwich Show instead.
While on our show, DPR Jones asked Hamza what would be the appropriate and reasonable response to apostates, and Hamza Tsortzis, head of the iERA said non-believers should be decapitated. He said it was the only humane thing to do, as he belives sawing someone’s head off to be a merciful and painless way to correct opposing opinions.
So this note from the iERA is pretty much meaningless dishonest bullshit -like everything else they say.

36 thoughts on “iERA Statement in Light of the Woolwich Attack

  1. You should be ashamed of yourself! I have seen that video, and the discussion was specifically on the punishments for apostates that are violent. He just mention that swift decapitation is painless from a medical perspective. Also, he has retracted his statements many times, check his twitter timeline. You should be ashamed of misrepresenting what happened. Its very irresponsible. You should correct your lies.

    1. After you’ve experienced that sort of decapitation, I’ll accept your expertise on the subject. Until then, you’re making crap up.

      And I’ve seen plenty of other videos with this guy, man. He advocates for the death penalty for apostasy. If he didn’t explicitly say it in that video, he’s said it in others.

    2. discussion was specifically on the punishments for apostates that are violent

      What does apostacy have to do with it? If you’re for the death penalty for certain violent crimes, I don’t find that too unreasonable, but what does apostacy have to do with it? If being an unbeliever colors your judgment of whether death is a fit punishment at all, which it seemingly does, then nothing relevant has changed, and you are a despicable human being.

    3. Tzortzis specifically said decapitation was ok for those who physically fight against islam. The Woolwich attacks where against a soldier who had served in Afganistan. This is exactly what Tzortzis endorsed. Fuck off Abu.

      1. Fuck off Abu

        Just a quibble: “Abu” is not a personal name, it means “father of” in Arabic. It’s not uncommon for Muslim (particularly Arabic-speaking) men to adopt such a name when they have a son. So correct would have been:

        Fuck off Abu Ilyaas

        with which sentiment I thoroughly concur.

    4. The trial of the two men accused of murdering the British soldier Lee Rigby turned up an interesting detail in the last couple of days. One of the two accused, Michael Adebolajo, claimed that in trying to cut off Rigby’s head (something in which he came close to succeeding) he was attempting to kill Rigby in what he felt was the most humane way.

      You can read more about this here. But it seems to me an interesting correspondence with what Hamza Tzortzis asserted during the Magic Sandwich Show cited above. This decapitation-is-humane motif seems to be something of a meme.

      Ed.

  2. Yeah.

    “You advocate death for apostasy and for 13 year-old rape victims. I’m sorry. It doesn’t matter what else you have to say; you have an inferior moral system, and you’re a monster. Nothing you can say after that can mitigate that first point.”

      1. Yeah, he was the primary guy talking, in the confrontation with Aron Ra and PZ Myers.

  3. What is abundantly clear in the teachings of Islam is that it is perhaps the most group-ish religion of all the major religions. Jihad is a violent affair in the Koran- no two ways about it. It is war against infidels and apostates. And it is one of the prime ways to get to heaven. For its time and place, one can argue that Islam introduced a few moral and social advances. But it also authored virtually immediate and unceasing warfare as policy and duty. For today, it is simply not a reasonable social system, especially if one reads and follows the original teachings.

  4. I don’t care if ALL the moderate hypocrite muslins got together and screamed ‘We don’t believe in killing!!!!’

    I say to them as I do to the moderate hypocrite xtians, ‘When you TEAR the hateful – killing – sexist BS out of your holey books then I will believe you are about luv!!!’

    1. I still prefer those who at least make some efforts, like some christians who say that the old laws no longer apply anymore. Instead, we have lots of muslims who sometimes say violence is bad, but will also say that death is the proper punishment or proscribed punishment for apostacy. The christians who say “oh, that part isn’t binding anymore” are still miles ahead as far as I can tell.

      Is there a big muslim group with the openly stated position that apostacy should not be punished? I’d suspect that in any majority islamic country, if such a group exists and was influential, then members would start getting shot. That’s another area where christian culture in the west seems to be miles ahead.

  5. That encounter in Dublin shows the dishonesty of Hamza and his buddy. When PZ refuted the claims about the scientific revelations of embryology in the Koran, and described the actual process, Hamza’s friend turned around and stated that the Koran described that process too, as if one description didn’t contradict the other. It was obvious that he was willfully ignorant and most likely, intentionally dishonest.

  6. Deseminaton of deceit is a common tactic encouraged by the more extreme leaders of islamic sects such as the wahhabi.They aren’t alone in this, as we have letters from Augustine of Hippo advising evangilizing members of his church to lie their asses off whenever being confronted by skeptical or confrontational questioners.

  7. Never going to happen, that cow is out of the barn,down the street and crushing the neighbors begonias. We’re dealing with people who think that they are on a mission from god, nothing you,I or anyone says to them will have any impression what so ever. Hope does spring eternal though, so it is up to us to engage, reason and expose the falsehoods that hey hold so dear.

  8. Hamza’s statement, in my interpretation, says “Muslims, don’t do that kind of thing. It is bad for our image.”

    I see absolutely nothing in his statement that can be construed as a condemnation of the murder.

    “acts of criminality” – as defined by UK law or as defined by Sharia?

    1. I don’t know about Tzortsis, but the Chairman of iERA, Abdur Raheem Green, wrote, in an essay that I have not seen him retract…

      The final form of jihad is that of the hand, or sword, where one expends life and property. It is characterized by its use against unbelievers, but can also be used against deviant groups under the authority of the Muslim ruler. This jihad of the hand, often termed “Holy War”, is further compartmentalized into three stages. The first is that of it being forbidden, as it was in the early days of Muhammad’s prophethood. If the Muslims are weak, and fighting is liable to cause only harm and no benefit, then they should desist. Such is the case of those dwelling in non-Muslim lands.

      At least when he wrote these words, then, he would have opposed such a deed for precisely that reason.

      1. So in a manner of speaking, Abdur Raheem would not attack me in a street surrounded by anglicans, catholics and atheists; but if I were to meet him in a dark alley with his muslim mates, he’d rip me an extra butthole in the throat. Mr Green sounds like a fine piece of work.

  9. Shouldn’t True Believers start getting on Hamza’s case for borrowing Apple’s peculiar nomenclature?

    Rendering “islam” as the only word not to get a capital letter in an organizational acronym clearly merits a big fat fatwa, or at least an emergency meeting of the ulema!

    1. Heh, that’s beautiful. How long did it take the Islamists to realize he wasn’t joking?

  10. Greetings! This is my first visit to your blog! We are a

    team of volunteers and starting a new project in a community in the

    same niche. Your blog provided us useful information to work on.

    You have done a extraordinary job!

  11. Woolwich murderer Michael Adebolajo says “This is the reality” when speaking to passers-by about his perception of the treatment of Muslims overseas.

    “This is the reality” is a phrase oft-used, in exactly the same tone and context, and with identical pronunciation and enunaciation, by one Hamza A. Tzortzis.

    Just saying.

  12. I not to mention my guys came examining the good thoughts found on the blog while the sudden got a horrible suspicion I never expressed respect to the site owner for those tips. Most of the men ended up so excited to read all of them and now have certainly been taking pleasure in them. Appreciation for indeed being well considerate and also for using this form of essential guides most people are really eager to know about. My sincere regret for not expressing appreciation to earlier.

  13. Just want to say your article is as astounding. The clearness in your post is just nice and I can assume you’re an expert on this subject. Well with your permission allow me to grab your feed to keep updated with forthcoming post. Thanks a million and please carry on the gratifying work.

  14. My husband and i were really fortunate Michael could deal with his analysis through your precious recommendations he grabbed through your site. It is now and again perplexing to just choose to be giving out instructions which most people could have been trying to sell. Therefore we acknowledge we’ve got the website owner to appreciate for that. The type of explanations you made, the simple web site navigation, the friendships you will help create – it’s most extraordinary, and it’s really facilitating our son in addition to the family imagine that that theme is enjoyable, and that is exceedingly mandatory. Thanks for all!

  15. Hi, I think that I saw you visited my website so I came to “return the favor”.I am attempting to find things to improve my web site!I suppose its ok to use some of your ideas!!

  16. I happen to be commenting to make you be aware of what a magnificent experience my child had viewing your web page. She mastered a lot of details, which include how it is like to have an awesome helping nature to get many more without problems know precisely chosen complex things. You really exceeded our own expected results. Thank you for presenting these effective, healthy, educational and as well as fun thoughts on this topic to Janet.

  17. I want to voice my respect for your generosity giving support to men and women who really need help on your issue. Your special dedication to passing the message all through was exceedingly practical and has helped many people like me to realize their targets. Your interesting tutorial means a great deal a person like me and especially to my peers. Regards; from everyone of us.

Leave a Reply to The Apostate Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Back to top